{"id":304,"date":"2016-05-04T02:00:28","date_gmt":"2016-05-04T02:00:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/?p=304"},"modified":"2016-05-10T20:18:46","modified_gmt":"2016-05-10T20:18:46","slug":"interview-john-e-hudgens-on-star-wars-fan-films","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/2016\/05\/04\/interview-john-e-hudgens-on-star-wars-fan-films\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview: John E. Hudgens on <i>Star Wars<\/i> Fan Films"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><figure id=\"attachment_357\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-357\" style=\"width: 800px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/crazywatto.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" src=\"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/crazywatto.jpg\" alt=\"&quot;Crazy Watto,&quot; the fan film that made John E. Hudgens famous  among Star Wars fans.\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" class=\"size-full wp-image-357\" srcset=\"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/crazywatto.jpg 800w, http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/crazywatto-300x169.jpg 300w, http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/crazywatto-700x394.jpg 700w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-357\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">&#8220;Crazy Watto,&#8221; the fan film that made John E. Hudgens famous  among <i>Star Wars<\/i> fans.<\/figcaption><\/figure><br \/>\nJohn E. Hudgens is the foremost historian of one of the strangest sub-genres of modern cinema: the fan film. He began his career in entertainment making music videos for <i>Babylon 5<\/i>, but found greater success when he created three of the most successful <i>Star Wars<\/i> fan films ever made: &#8220;Crazy Watto&#8221; (which won the Lucasfilm Official Fan Film Awards in 2000 and was shown at Cannes), &#8220;Darth Vader&#8217;s Psychic Hotline,&#8221; and &#8220;Jedi Hunter&#8221; (which were runner-up and winner of the Luscafilm fan audience awards in 2002 and 2003 respectively.) As a documentarian, he directed <i>Backyard Blockbusters<\/i>, a history of fan films that played at the Other Worlds Austin Film Festival. I talked to him just before <i>Star Wars<\/i> Day, May the Fourth, in 2016, about the history of fan films, and what the recent fight over who owns the rights to <i>Star Trek<\/i> mean for the genre (parts of this interview previously appeared at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.austinchronicle.com\"target=\"_blank\">www.austinchronicle.com<\/a>.)<\/p>\n<p><i><b>Richard Whittaker<\/b>: As a maker of fan films, hat\u2019s the appeal for you of playing on someone else\u2019s sandbox?<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>John E. Hudgens<\/b>: The great thing about fan films is that there\u2019s a short hand. You don\u2019t have to explain the set-up of <i>Star wars<\/i>. If you\u2019re going to tell your own original story, you have to set up everything, but if you don\u2019t need to explain Darth Vader, you don\u2019t have to explain lightsabers, it\u2019s all already there. It\u2019s all already there, people get it, and that\u2019s one less thing you have to do.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, I say that talking more about parodies, which is more what I\u2019ve done. I\u2019ve not done anything like <i>Star Trek: New Voyages<\/i>. But a lot of people want to play in that universe, and the only they can get certain things, or see certain things done, is to do it themselves. So \u201cJedi Hunter\u201d was such a great idea, but the only way to see it was to go make it. Luckily, we were able to pull that off.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: There\u2019s always that contradiction, that the appeal for a lot of people with doing a short is that they\u2019re cheap and easy, but doing a sci-fi fan film, the costumes aren\u2019t cheap, the props aren\u2019t cheap.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: But there are so many people out there in fandom who have these things and made them themselves. \u201cCrazy Watto\u201d was just our toys, and that was a complete accident. We weren\u2019t planning on making a fan film, it was just us goofing us. I don\u2019t know if you saw the behind-the-scenes piece, but we were going to do this massive stop-motion battle, but that was too much work. When we got the idea for \u201cDarth Vader\u2019s Psychic Hotline\u201d I\u2019d been doing the convention for years because of <i>Babylon 5<\/i>, so I was very familiar with a lot of people in the convention culture, so I knew there were a lot of people with costumes, so it was a matter of who was available and who would do it. That\u2019s the way it is with a lot of this films, especially now you have the 501st and the Rebel Legion and various Star Trek groups. There are people out there who have the props and will jump at the chance to use them. For the most part, people aren\u2019t in it for the money, they\u2019re just in it for the fun. That\u2019s the way you should do it, because there have been very few fan films that have gotten dinged for money. People get that they can play with this stuff, but they can\u2019t make money off of it.<\/p>\n<p>Well you hope they get that. That\u2019s part of the problem with <i>Star Trek: Axanar<\/i>. They weren\u2019t trying to make money off of it, but there was a lot of money involved.<br \/>\nI don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve kept up with that, but there\u2019s been some fallout from that already. The guys that did <i>Star Trek: Horizon<\/i> were getting ready to launch the Kickstarter this weekend for their follow-up. They didn\u2019t get a C&#038;D, they didn\u2019t get a lawsuit, but they got a call from Paramount saying \u201cDon\u2019t.\u201d So they shut down their follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m wondering, part of that is Paramount trying to tread a little lighter. Granted, they\u2019re mostly in the right with what they\u2019re doing with <i>Axanar<\/i>, but they\u2019re going about it the wrong way, and they\u2019re getting a lot of bad press.<\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: <\/i>Star Wars<i> has seemed to have a different relationship with fan films than a lot of other properties. Some tolerate them, but Lucasfilm has actively embraced them, even running the competitions.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: It\u2019s not as big as it was in the last decade, but they\u2019re still doing the <i>Star Wars<\/i> fan film awards. It\u2019s much smaller than it used to be, it\u2019s not as huge, and the films are shorter \u2013 I think there\u2019s a five minute limit. And there\u2019s not as much money as there was: I don\u2019t think the winners get any profit sharing, the way we did with ours. I actually made a profit on all four of my fan films.<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/8ffeLRuKCI0\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: Isn\u2019t that unprecedented?<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: It was, but I was in a unique position. \u201cCrazy Watto\u201d and \u201cDarth Vader\u2019s Psychic Hotline,\u201d we\u2019re not talking huge amounts of money, but I made back what I spent. Also, with the two big ones I had, they won the audience choice in their years, so they got a lot more viewers. The way Atom Films structured it was that there a pool of revenue for each year, and you got a percentage of that depending on how many views you got, and the winners and the more popular ones got a bigger chunk of change. So even though I think \u201cJedi Hunter\u201d is a better film and got more views, \u201cDarth Vader\u2019s Psychic Hotline\u201d made more money because it came out in a year when there was a film. <\/p>\n<p>They\u2019re not doing it anymore, but part of that was because they were doing it with Atom Films, and Atom Films had structured all these deals, and taking them to Cannes and trying to distribute them as short films, and they had Lucasfilm had them as a partner, and I don\u2019t think anyone has done that since. There\u2019s been some stuff, like <i>Battlestar Galactica<\/i> has done some stuff, but that was basically remixing their footage. I know <i>Red Dwarf<\/i> did something, but that went on the DVD as extras and I\u2019m not sure there was any compensation. Paramount has always just been, \u2018we\u2019re going to look this way, and you guys, don\u2019t screw us.<\/p>\n<p>Even Lucasfilm wasn\u2019t always on board, but they came around really quickly. I think it was back in \u201998, the Australian short \u201cDark Redemption\u201d got a C&#038;D before somebody at Lucasfilm went to the lawyers and said, dude, rope it in. I know (<i>Star Wars<\/i> archivist) Steve Sansweet has talked about it, that it was one of those things where it was a misunderstanding where the lawyers moved on something and the company went \u201cwhoa!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"width:120px;height:240px;\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"\/\/ws-na.amazon-adsystem.com\/widgets\/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&#038;OneJS=1&#038;Operation=GetAdHtml&#038;MarketPlace=US&#038;source=ac&#038;ref=qf_sp_asin_til&#038;ad_type=product_link&#038;tracking_id=rmwhittakerco-20&#038;marketplace=amazon&#038;region=US&#038;placement=B00VJ04TH0&#038;asins=B00VJ04TH0&#038;linkId=LH3V3ZB3JA3Y5PUZ&#038;show_border=true&#038;link_opens_in_new_window=true\"><br \/>\n<\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: So what is it that makes a good versus a bad fan film?<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: I don\u2019t know that there is \u2026 well, I\u2019ve seen bad ones that you wouldn\u2019t believe. I also used to help TheForce.Net screen fan films. From 2003 to 2007, after I made my films, I was one of the gate keepers. The thing is, people with forgive a lot of things if they\u2019re entertained. There\u2019s this fantastic short called \u201cThe $10 Fan Film.\u201d It looks like crap, but it\u2019s funny. I\u2019ve seen films where people have put their heart and soul into it, and they look gorgeous, but they\u2019re unwatchable, because they\u2019re not having fun. I use the example of myself: when the first <i>Star Wars<\/i> contest came along, we were trying to win. We made it look really flashy, I got my friends to help out, we tried to stack the deck, and it\u2019s funny, but it\u2019s not <i>funny<\/i>. We were doing it for the wrong reason. <\/p>\n<p>When \u201cJedi Hunter\u201d came along, we did it, whether there was a contest or not. We had the idea waiting at dinner for Peter Mayhew, and we had people around us laughing at the ideas that we were throwing around. So we made that because we just had to see it, and we didn\u2019t care if there was going to be a contest. We just wanted to please ourselves, and of course that\u2019s the one that won all the awards. You can feel the difference. There\u2019s a passion. We weren\u2019t just trying to make something funny. We were having fun making something funny, and I think there are too many people being too serious. <\/p>\n<p>Not to say you can\u2019t have a serious fan film, because some of the <i>Star Trek<\/i> films are just phenomenal. But for me that\u2019s one of the differences between <i>Star Trek: New Voyages<\/i> and <i>Star Trek Continues<\/i>, is that <i>Star Trek: New Voyages<\/i> is a passion project, while <i>Star Trek Continues<\/i> is (producer\/director) Vic Mignogna trying to be <i>Star Trek<\/i>. <\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: Are you seeing many post-<\/i>The Force Awakens<\/i> fan films, or are people still playing around more in the prequel and original trilogies?<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: Well, I\u2019ve been very busy since the movie came out with work, but there have been a couple of fan films I\u2019ve seen come out. There was a really elaborate one called \u201cRebel Scum\u201d, and then there was a Darth Maul one that everyone was raving over. But like I said, the submission process is open for the official fan film award. They did it last year, but it didn\u2019t get the same publicity as it did 10 years ago.<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/EHQYsiDJfdQ\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>It comes in waves. Probably what you\u2019ll see is that <i>The Force Awakens<\/i> has inspired a lot of people, and it just takes a bit of time to get things going. They just need something to spur their imagination, and spur them into action. If <i>The Force Awakens<\/i> did one thing, it really got people excited about <i>Star Wars<\/i> again. And granted, it was a fun movie too. And I\u2019m not a prequel basher. They\u2019re not horrid movies. They\u2019re not great movies, but if they were the only <i>Star Wars<\/i> movies, people would be looking back at them the way we look back at the originals. We were spoiled in the \u201880s.<\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: It\u2019ll be interesting to see what happens next, because for so many young kids, their <\/i>Star Wars<i> is <\/i>The Clone Wars<i> and <\/i>Rebels<i>.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: And a lot of it is the tools, because the tools get easier and easier every year. When I started, late \u201870s, early \u201880s, I had these grand ambitions of what would have been an adaptation of <i>Han Solo at Star\u2019s End<\/i>, the Brian Daley books. Mapped it out, tried to build models, but of course it never happened, because I was 13.<\/p>\n<p><i><b>RW<\/b>: And now you look at something like \u201cRebel Scum\u201d and the production values are incredible.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>JEH<\/b>: Well, that\u2019s made by adults with apparently lots of cash to spare. There are lot of people doing like what Sandy Collora (\u201cBatman: Dead End\u201d) did. They\u2019re using these as calling cards, proof of concept, \u201cThis is what I can do with nothing. Give me a budget and I\u2019ll knock your socks off.\u201d I didn\u2019t really treat this like that myself, because I already had a full time job in television and liked where I was.  I certainly did the best I could, and pulled out all the stops for what we could pull off. <\/p>\n<p>But with us, we just wanted to have fun. That\u2019s why it took so long from \u201cJedi Hunter\u201d to \u201cSith Apprentice.\u201d We weren\u2019t going to do another one just to do one. We had to have an idea that was worth doing, that could stand next to the other one and not be a knock-off. That\u2019s why we haven\u2019t done another one. I won\u2019t say never, but I don\u2019t know if we would do another, because none of us have had \u201cthe idea\u201d that demands to be made.<\/p>\n<p>The best we ever had, and it\u2019s past its prime now, we were considering doing \u201cThe Vader Report\u201d, which was Darth Vader as Stephen Colbert. Oh, we came so close. I even built 3D sets for it. We had a couple of gags, but we never had a story.<\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"width:120px;height:240px;\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"\/\/ws-na.amazon-adsystem.com\/widgets\/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&#038;OneJS=1&#038;Operation=GetAdHtml&#038;MarketPlace=US&#038;source=ac&#038;ref=qf_sp_asin_til&#038;ad_type=product_link&#038;tracking_id=rmwhittakerco-20&#038;marketplace=amazon&#038;region=US&#038;placement=B019EG1TC8&#038;asins=B019EG1TC8&#038;linkId=7XMIW5RIL6TSKRYL&#038;show_border=true&#038;link_opens_in_new_window=true\"><br \/>\n<\/iframe><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>John E. Hudgens is the foremost historian of one of the strangest sub-genres of modern cinema: the fan film. He began his career in entertainment making music videos for Babylon 5, but found greater success when he created three of the most successful Star Wars fan films ever made: &#8220;Crazy Watto&#8221; (which won the Lucasfilm &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/2016\/05\/04\/interview-john-e-hudgens-on-star-wars-fan-films\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Interview: John E. Hudgens on <i>Star Wars<\/i> Fan Films<\/span> <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[114,113,40],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/304"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304"}],"version-history":[{"count":15,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/304\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":358,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/304\/revisions\/358"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rmwhittaker.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}